Posted on December 11, 2007 09:14
Steve Sensenig:
So, the miracles are part of the message absolutely.... Does that mean that the miraculous healings, speaking in tongues, etc. are now or should be now a part of everyday Christian life?
If it's part of the message, I think it makes sense to respond to your question with: why not? That's really the whole point of my initial question. On what basis do we 1) not teach about them (apart from historical referencing), and/or 2) not expect them?
BTW, I'm not sure I see where you get the "remaining broken" concept from scripture. How can being whole and remaining broken co-exist in the same message? I don't ever see remaining broken being preached by Jesus or his apostles, but I'm possibly missing something. Care to elaborate? Or do you want me to leave you alone now? ;)
Posted on December 11, 2007 09:29
Kansas Bob:
As a 30+ year charismatic I guess I am somewhere in the middle on miracles.
I think that the mainstreaming of miracles by certain sects of Christianity keeps people in denial and doesn't help them grieve the loss of life changes and life itself.. Christian Science, Jehovah Witnesses and some Word of Faith theologies come to mind.
Having said that I always come down on the side of prayer.. my first wife was blind and was healed in her left eye when people prayed.. it just is not a formula.
And about the connection of faith and miracles.. I am okay with people talking about it as long as they don't start spiritual detective work when the miracle doesn't come.. Job shows us that bad things happen even when there is faith and no sin.
Posted on December 11, 2007 11:39
Scott: So we come again to the question, when you say "teach about them" what does that mean/look like?
Re: brokeness, the last half of Romans 7 is a good start.
Posted on December 11, 2007 12:24
Larry Eiss:
With regard to the last half of Romans 7:
As I know you understand, Paul is talking about the struggle between his flesh and his spirit. This struggle remains because it is the spirit that is re-created at the new birth. We have the same old flesh until the day of glorification. Yet when Jesus healed, He made the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, and the physically dead live.
To me the only sort of brokeness (sic) being dealt with in regard to what we call miracles is physical. We generally do not discuss regeneration as miraculous--though it is without a doubt the biggest miracle of all.
Of course never having facilitated or observed a bona-fide "miracle" in the physical realm myself, what do I know?
Grace and peace Brother, and thanks for the interesting discussion!