Final Destination

I’ve been reading some N. T. Wright thanks to my friend Jon and based on that I have to ask the believers in the crowd the following question. When you die where is your ultimate destination provided you are a follower of Christ? Bonus question, what about immediately after you die?

I’ll weigh in after I get some comments.

  • Josh

    I believe that my ultimate destination is on a new earth in a divinely restored universe. Immediately after death, I believe that our souls go to “be” with God in a disembodied (albeit) conscious state. However, this intermediate state is only temporary and is not what God intends for us ultimately.

  • Scott

    This is a test post.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Noble-Bear/1126752326 Noble Bear

    Well after listening to a good deal of Chuck Missler, I'm inclined to think that the “software” of our minds and spirits would transcend into a higher dimensional or extra-dimensional state. There we would be free to interact with the divine and view after a fashion life here on earth much the way we currently can view a cartoon or painting.

    As for immediately after, I couldn't say as I haven't given it any real thought.

  • http://twitter.com/ObiOrion Orion Dauphin

    Ultimately, we will be right back here after the rapture and the final battle against Satan. It will be Heaven on Earth.

    Immediately, we will be on some other plane of existence. But, and here's the catch, time has no meaning while on this plane and as such if we're there a day or a millennia it won't matter because from our perspective only a fraction of an instant will have passed.

  • jasonfaylen

    what do you get when you cross an elephant and a rhinoceros?

  • Josh

    @Orion- Are you sure that time will have no meaning in the intermediate state? We will still be conscious after all, and conscious though processes require time. For example, there is a time t1 when I am thinking about a tree and a time t2 when I am not. I think that, as finite creatures, we will always be in time (or experience the flow of time). Moreover, I think that God is the only Being who experiences true eternality since this is essentially part of his divine nature.

    just my two cents…

  • skoota48

    A christian goes forward at the bodies death to sleep in the company of all those gone before. Just as aevery one ekse does. However. All will will be called on the day of Gods judgement to be given the reward they have attained. Some will be renewed with God and some according to scripture will enter the great pit.
    The sad truth being that if you don't want to follow God now it is nearly impossible for anyone to do it after this body and soul seperate.

  • skoota48

    God is notlimited by our version of time.

  • Josh

    I agree completely. Which is why I said that God is the only being who experiences and exists in true eternality. However, I do believe that God has created us as time-bound creatures since this is part of the nature of our finitude.

  • Josh

    Of course, I'm not saying that God could not overrule the strictures of time in our case. For example, he could move us throughout time if he so chose, or he could “freeze” our consciousness so that there would be no flow of time. But since Scripture seems to indicate that we will be in conscious enjoyment of God's presence during the intermediate state, this would seem to logically necessitate some sort of time flow to allow us to experience consciousness.

    Then again, thinkers like Aquinas opined that the beatific vision would somehow consist of “sharing” in the nature of God so that a part of us related to his eternality (I believe he referred to this as sempiternality). But even Aquinas was reticent as to any Biblical evidence for this view.

  • spiritualtramp

    That certainly seems like an orthodox answer. What would you make of Jesus' words to the thief on the cross?

  • spiritualtramp

    Elefino, but I'd like a better answer from you.

  • spiritualtramp

    When you say the “rapture” I'm assuming you mean a la “Left Behind”?

    As far as time “having no meaning” I'm not sure I can even imagine that. What do you use to back that up?

  • spiritualtramp

    So you don't think we'll ever be physical again, or will physicality be somehow different?

  • spiritualtramp

    That's what Wright seems to be saying.

  • spiritualtramp

    How much will we be like God even after death?

  • jasonfaylen

    Well, I really don't have an answer. I let go of my dispensational beliefs
    awhile back and have not taken on anything new.
    I guess I agree with the idea that my body will rot and my spirit will
    reside with God until I get a new body.

  • Josh

    Yeah, I was thrilled when Wright actually started addressing this issue. Most Christian philosophers and theologians don't really produce much work on the afterlife because they just assume that everyone understands the Biblical model.

    But when you look at popular Christian concepts about heaven (especially in hymns) you find that there is an entire folk eschatology built around this incredibly unscriptural idea that we leave our physical bodies behind forever at death. Or that we inherit some sort of ethereal “spiritual” body up in the sky somewhere. But Scripture explicitly teaches that what most people think of as “heaven” is actually only a temporary stop.

  • skoota48

    Well like the Prophet Ezekial Jesus was showing that God can change anything.
    There is even a story that the the apostle whom Jesus loved never died and is still working for Jesus today. May it be true or not the issue is is Godps not limited by our physical limitations. The bible says NO. He is not going to die or age or get ill. Along with a new heaven and a new Earth we are told in scripture we will have uncorruptable bodies renewed. We don't need to fear disability or handicap. We only need to fear seperation from God through the ultimate sin. Hebrews chapter 6 verse 4 to 6

  • RobAC

    Short answer, in the presence of God. I believe that immediately after we die we will be with God, but that is open to debate and we can't really know, Scripture seems a little unclear on this point. New heaven and new earth, etc.? Who knows, we'll find out.

  • Rey

    Immediately after we die we will be in the presence of Christ but “unclothed” as it were. Our ultimate destination is the new Earth with our resurrected bodies.