Profaning God

Here’s an interesting quote from Stealing Jesus:

For some people “are atheists because of a higher implicit theism than that professed by believers. They reject God because His name has been taken in vain, and they are unable to distinguish between His holiness and its profanation.” In other words, they rebel, both intellectually and morally, against what legalistic faiths have made of God, “both in the realm of truth and in the realm of the good, in both culture and ethics.”

Now I don’t know if there really are any (functioning) atheists that arrived where they are because of this, but it’s in line with a thought I had yesterday. In some ways, the church has done more damage to people’s faith than a thousand million Dawkins/Darwins/Hitchens. When someone steps out of our theological comfort zone we can be so quick to tell them how wrong they are and that the error is going to lead them out of the body. You tell someone that often enough and they’ll start believing it. If they do then they’ll either give up telling you that they believe what they do and go along to get along or they’ll just throw their hands up and leave. Sure, they might also come to agree with you, but have you done God’s work in that case? Or are we profaning God by taking his place in the judgment seat?

Now just for the sake of clarification I do think there are times that a person can be in legitimate danger of heresy, but I would argue that those cases are rarer than we really want to make them.

  • Wondering - do atheists take the Lord's name in vain? Would seem strange for them to use the name of Jesus or to say G-D it. Just wondering.
  • I'm an atheist, and, when I think about it, Jesus' name is my most common 'swear,' with 'God dammit' taking a close second. I don't even think about it when I do it; it's just the default.

    I agree with sid that it's mainly learned, but to add to that, I think part of what happens with using these sorts of words is the act is -intended- to be offensive. We're angry, we want to express that anger, and using forbidden words, or using acceptable words in forbidden ways, does the job in a way that doesn't involve actually breaking things or other riskier actions. For that purpose, an oath of damnation, whether believed in or not, can work just as well as any regular swear word.
  • DARWINDAMMIT!!!!
  • sidfaiwu
    "Goddammit" and the like are more cultural than religious in nature. They're not actual requests for a deity to smite something but a learned expression of frustration. It's no different to me than any other swear words common to Americans.
  • I guess that is one perspective on it.. interesting that no one says "Darwindammit" :)
  • I used to half-jokingly say that I respected God too much to believe in him anymore. It wasn't actually the reason I left, but the monstrosity that Christian theology makes God out to be is one of the two early things that got me seriously questioning things.
    -Dan Sawyer
  • sidfaiwu
    "Now I don’t know if there really are any (functioning) atheists that arrived where they are because of this..."

    Actually, I know a few atheists who started not directly because of the theology of believers, but because of the actions of those believers based on their theology. Heck, that was definitely part of it for me early on. Once I allowed myself to commit what you might call false heresy by questioning said theology, I realized that I had the freedom to question and answer for myself all aspects of Christian theology.
  • The really tragic irony for me is how these Christians, who are acting "in the best interest" of unbelievers, are the ones who make Christianity appear so unappealing. A preoccupation with the religious 'Heaven/Hell for eternity' question turns off unbelievers to a life-saving, here and now relationship.
  • spiritualtramp
    I think it's always good to question. I hope you continue to question and that one day we can agree on more answers.
  • Beq
    As someone raised Christian but no longer one, and am now a solitary practicing pagan, I have to say that the 'You *will* believe as I do' and 'You're going to hell because you don't believe as $Christian sect' did more to drive me from my church of origin than any other single factor.

    Hypocrisy and fanaticism are the fastest ways to drive anyone away from any faith.
  • spiritualtramp
    I can imagine. Sorry it was true in your case.
  • I've met so many "unbelievers" that have been turned off by judgmental Christians--not because of a fundamental flaw in faith. Jesus's harshest criticisms were for the religious leaders who forgot the basic tenet of our relationship with God and with each other: love.

    I couldn't agree more with your statement that "...the church has done more damage to people's faith than a thousand million Dawkins/Darwins/Hitchens".
  • spiritualtramp
    Hey Jackie, thanks for the comment.
  • Jon
    I've lurked here enough to see your desire for a solid community within which to work out life's issues; not the least of which to be theological issues.

    I sympathize with pushing for something of a hiatus on the "heresy" word, but I'm curious, what's your prescription for engaging disagreements when they are encountered specifically within our faith communities?
  • spiritualtramp
    I think there's a place for disagreement and discussion. Saying "I think you're in error and here's why," in a reasonable way is different from, "I'm really concerned that you're going to hell". There are hills to die on sure, I just think that a lot of brothers and sisters see the whole landscape in that way.
  • Jon
    So let's presume we've managed to embrace reasonable ways.

    What hills can you die on and how?
  • spiritualtramp
    Personally, the hills I would "die" on would be anything mentioned in the Apostle's Creed. I think that's a pretty basic statement of faith and if you don't believe what's laid out there I for one would at least wonder why you call yourself a Christian.
  • Nobilis
    Hallelujah, brother.

    And I say that as a dirty heathen.
  • spiritualtramp
    Thanks Nobilis.
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