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	<title>Comments on: Conservative Bible Project</title>
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	<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/</link>
	<description>Musings on Christianity</description>
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		<title>By: Nobilis</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2845</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2845</guid>
		<description>And about as violent with each other as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And about as violent with each other as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Nobilis</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2643</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2643</guid>
		<description>And about as violent with each other as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And about as violent with each other as well.</p>
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		<title>By: RobAC</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2642</link>
		<dc:creator>RobAC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2642</guid>
		<description>&quot;The committee in charge of updating the bestselling version, the NIV, is dominated by professors and higher-educated participants who can be expected to be liberal and feminist in outlook. As a result, the revision and replacement of the NIV will be influenced more by political correctness and other liberal distortions than by genuine examination of the oldest manuscripts. As a result of these political influences, it becomes desirable to develop a conservative translation that can serve, at a minimum, as a bulwark against the liberal manipulation of meaning in future versions.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is a quote from the conservapedia site, I actually knew one of the translators of the New Testament and while he did indeed have a Ph.D., I am not sure that I would be able to call him a liberal or one who was particularly inclined to political correctness.  I don&#039;t know any of the others who did the translation work, but if the gentleman I knew is an example of the quality of the translators, then I think that this is an erroneous presupposition on the part of the author.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The gentleman spoke to one of my Greek classes and he discussed the issue of vocabulary and there was an effort to use words that an 8th grader would be expected to know, but there was no sense in which the translators were dumbing down the NIV.  Also, the translators used the oldest and best manuscripts available, and while there is always debate as to which manuscripts are best, they used the American Bible Society&#039;s 3rd edition as the basis from which to work which has been accepted by most evangelicals as the most accurate Greek text available.  Where there are discrepancies between Greek texts, these were noted in footnotes of most NIV Bible, at times explaining the reasoning behind certain selections by the translation committee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The committee in charge of updating the bestselling version, the NIV, is dominated by professors and higher-educated participants who can be expected to be liberal and feminist in outlook. As a result, the revision and replacement of the NIV will be influenced more by political correctness and other liberal distortions than by genuine examination of the oldest manuscripts. As a result of these political influences, it becomes desirable to develop a conservative translation that can serve, at a minimum, as a bulwark against the liberal manipulation of meaning in future versions.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a quote from the conservapedia site, I actually knew one of the translators of the New Testament and while he did indeed have a Ph.D., I am not sure that I would be able to call him a liberal or one who was particularly inclined to political correctness.  I don&#39;t know any of the others who did the translation work, but if the gentleman I knew is an example of the quality of the translators, then I think that this is an erroneous presupposition on the part of the author.  </p>
<p>The gentleman spoke to one of my Greek classes and he discussed the issue of vocabulary and there was an effort to use words that an 8th grader would be expected to know, but there was no sense in which the translators were dumbing down the NIV.  Also, the translators used the oldest and best manuscripts available, and while there is always debate as to which manuscripts are best, they used the American Bible Society&#39;s 3rd edition as the basis from which to work which has been accepted by most evangelicals as the most accurate Greek text available.  Where there are discrepancies between Greek texts, these were noted in footnotes of most NIV Bible, at times explaining the reasoning behind certain selections by the translation committee.</p>
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		<title>By: spiritualtramp</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2639</link>
		<dc:creator>spiritualtramp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2639</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re, of course, right. Thought for thought does not necessarily lead to a less &quot;accurate&quot; translation.  But what they&#039;re trying to do isn&#039;t even a translation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#39;re, of course, right. Thought for thought does not necessarily lead to a less &#8220;accurate&#8221; translation.  But what they&#39;re trying to do isn&#39;t even a translation.</p>
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		<title>By: spiritualtramp</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2638</link>
		<dc:creator>spiritualtramp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2638</guid>
		<description>Yeah there were perhaps as many different schools of thought in Judaism then as there are Christian schools of thought today.  If not exactly as many, perhaps percentage wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah there were perhaps as many different schools of thought in Judaism then as there are Christian schools of thought today.  If not exactly as many, perhaps percentage wise.</p>
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		<title>By: spiritualtramp</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2637</link>
		<dc:creator>spiritualtramp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2637</guid>
		<description>Heh, yeah.  Of course there are liberal Christians that fall under that too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, yeah.  Of course there are liberal Christians that fall under that too.</p>
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		<title>By: Nobilis</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2635</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2635</guid>
		<description>Depends on which group you&#039;re talking about.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Essenes were very anarcho-socialist in their economic structure, and were so pacifist that they wouldn&#039;t allow weapons into their settlements.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On the other hand, the Zealots were violent anti-tax rebels, so that group might fit better.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You really can&#039;t talk about &quot;Jews living 2,000 years ago&quot; without being more specific.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on which group you&#39;re talking about.</p>
<p>The Essenes were very anarcho-socialist in their economic structure, and were so pacifist that they wouldn&#39;t allow weapons into their settlements.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the Zealots were violent anti-tax rebels, so that group might fit better.</p>
<p>You really can&#39;t talk about &#8220;Jews living 2,000 years ago&#8221; without being more specific.</p>
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		<title>By: RobAC</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2634</link>
		<dc:creator>RobAC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2634</guid>
		<description>All scholars have an agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All scholars have an agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: RobAC</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2633</link>
		<dc:creator>RobAC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2633</guid>
		<description>From my experience, most &quot;conservative&quot; Christians are more conservative than Christian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my experience, most &#8220;conservative&#8221; Christians are more conservative than Christian.</p>
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		<title>By: RobAC</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2632</link>
		<dc:creator>RobAC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2632</guid>
		<description>&quot;The primary issue, as I understand it, comes from the effort on the part of the translators to make it easier to understand and in trying to communicate what they believe that the original authors intended they did what is commonly called a “thought for thought” translation.  Other translations including the English Standard Version use a “word for word” approach.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hey Uncle Scott, if I might weigh in on this discussion, my background as you know is Classics major in college (i.e. Greek and Latin) and a master&#039;s degree from Duke in theology/religion.  What you refer to as a thought for thought translation is known as dynamic equivalence and it is just as accurate and sometimes more so than a wooden word for word translation, especially if one tries to use the same English word every time a Greek or Hebrew word is used.  Even if a word for word translation were possible, and as someone who studied French you should realize the impossibility of that, there is no guarantee that a word for word translation would even make sense at times.  Translation is an art, whatever approach one takes and a good translation will make that which is translated as easy to understand as possible.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As far as the rest of the blog goes, we all come to translation, and every thing else for that matter, with a bias.  I have a problem with either the liberal or conservative abuse of the art  of translation for political/social agendas.  I do not translate in a vacuum, but I would hope that I take into consideration viewpoints that are different from mine and try to address issues that may arise because of my personal opinions.  Obviously I am not totally successful, but effort is there.  I actually think that if one reads the Bible with an open mind, one sees a definite &quot;liberal&quot; bias as does an organization such as Sojourners, a strongly evangelical organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The primary issue, as I understand it, comes from the effort on the part of the translators to make it easier to understand and in trying to communicate what they believe that the original authors intended they did what is commonly called a “thought for thought” translation.  Other translations including the English Standard Version use a “word for word” approach.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hey Uncle Scott, if I might weigh in on this discussion, my background as you know is Classics major in college (i.e. Greek and Latin) and a master&#39;s degree from Duke in theology/religion.  What you refer to as a thought for thought translation is known as dynamic equivalence and it is just as accurate and sometimes more so than a wooden word for word translation, especially if one tries to use the same English word every time a Greek or Hebrew word is used.  Even if a word for word translation were possible, and as someone who studied French you should realize the impossibility of that, there is no guarantee that a word for word translation would even make sense at times.  Translation is an art, whatever approach one takes and a good translation will make that which is translated as easy to understand as possible.</p>
<p>As far as the rest of the blog goes, we all come to translation, and every thing else for that matter, with a bias.  I have a problem with either the liberal or conservative abuse of the art  of translation for political/social agendas.  I do not translate in a vacuum, but I would hope that I take into consideration viewpoints that are different from mine and try to address issues that may arise because of my personal opinions.  Obviously I am not totally successful, but effort is there.  I actually think that if one reads the Bible with an open mind, one sees a definite &#8220;liberal&#8221; bias as does an organization such as Sojourners, a strongly evangelical organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Kansas Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2630</link>
		<dc:creator>Kansas Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2630</guid>
		<description>Just what the kingdom of God needed :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just what the kingdom of God needed <img src='http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: spiritualtramp</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2628</link>
		<dc:creator>spiritualtramp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2628</guid>
		<description>It does paint it in big, bold letters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does paint it in big, bold letters.</p>
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		<title>By: brad mcfadden</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2627</link>
		<dc:creator>brad mcfadden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2627</guid>
		<description>just a note on their claim about the adulterous woman claim. It is true that there is some question about where the story really fits into the gospel. But they fail to mention that very few scholars question that the story is authentic to Jesus. In fact it is one of the earliest stories they have manuscripts for. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/%7Ewie/TCG/TC-John-PA.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/TC-John-...&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br&gt;&quot;That Papias (ca. 125 CE) knew the story means that it existed ca. 100 CE already. This again makes it quite probable that the story contains a genuine Jesus tradition.&quot; This has been twisted by notes dating back from Wescott and Hort who would only include this in their work with the footnote &quot;Not included in the earliest and best MSS&quot;. This statement taken without the additional evidence that the story was a true story of Jesus (even if it wasnt originally in John) is very misleading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just a note on their claim about the adulterous woman claim. It is true that there is some question about where the story really fits into the gospel. But they fail to mention that very few scholars question that the story is authentic to Jesus. In fact it is one of the earliest stories they have manuscripts for. See <a href="http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/%7Ewie/TCG/TC-John-PA.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/TC-John-&#8230;</a> <br />&#8220;That Papias (ca. 125 CE) knew the story means that it existed ca. 100 CE already. This again makes it quite probable that the story contains a genuine Jesus tradition.&#8221; This has been twisted by notes dating back from Wescott and Hort who would only include this in their work with the footnote &#8220;Not included in the earliest and best MSS&#8221;. This statement taken without the additional evidence that the story was a true story of Jesus (even if it wasnt originally in John) is very misleading.</p>
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		<title>By: jesusgeek</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2626</link>
		<dc:creator>jesusgeek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2626</guid>
		<description>Compared to Jews living 2,000 years ago these guys would be liberals.  That&#039;s all, nothing more to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compared to Jews living 2,000 years ago these guys would be liberals.  That&#39;s all, nothing more to say.</p>
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		<title>By: jasonfaylen</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2624</link>
		<dc:creator>jasonfaylen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2624</guid>
		<description>I find myself telling people lately: the whole point of legalism is to construct a longer list of reasons why someone is far superior to someone else.  If these modern Pharisees can come up with more rules that they conveniently already adhere to, then they can prove that they art more holy than thou art.  This is just another example of such a thing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I consider myself to be pretty conservative, or at least I have until recently.  I would call these extremists- perhaps even terrorists.  And of course, since the media will happily be all over this, all Christians will be painted with this stripe.  How embarassing.  and enfuriating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find myself telling people lately: the whole point of legalism is to construct a longer list of reasons why someone is far superior to someone else.  If these modern Pharisees can come up with more rules that they conveniently already adhere to, then they can prove that they art more holy than thou art.  This is just another example of such a thing.</p>
<p>I consider myself to be pretty conservative, or at least I have until recently.  I would call these extremists- perhaps even terrorists.  And of course, since the media will happily be all over this, all Christians will be painted with this stripe.  How embarassing.  and enfuriating.</p>
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		<title>By: brad mcfadden</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2623</link>
		<dc:creator>brad mcfadden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2623</guid>
		<description>Good article.  If we are to be one then we should have one word and I dont mean one translation.  They main issue for me is anyone using wescott and hort for anything. They worked with &quot;modern ideology&quot; of truth is discovered and not revealed which lead them to make some very odd decisions. The KJV onliest tho are just whacky if they think the Holy word of God can only exist in one language. Anyway I agree with the point of your article: Let the word stand and let the Holy Spirit translate. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Personally I like the net bible. Earnest scholarship by earnest non agenda scholars. &lt;a href=&quot;http://net.bible.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;net.bible.org&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article.  If we are to be one then we should have one word and I dont mean one translation.  They main issue for me is anyone using wescott and hort for anything. They worked with &#8220;modern ideology&#8221; of truth is discovered and not revealed which lead them to make some very odd decisions. The KJV onliest tho are just whacky if they think the Holy word of God can only exist in one language. Anyway I agree with the point of your article: Let the word stand and let the Holy Spirit translate. </p>
<p>Personally I like the net bible. Earnest scholarship by earnest non agenda scholars. <a href="http://net.bible.org" rel="nofollow">net.bible.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nobilis</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2009/10/conservative-bible-project-conservapedia/comment-page-1/#comment-2622</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=921#comment-2622</guid>
		<description>Wow.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;These people will attack anything that refutes their prejudices, but this goes farther than I thought possible.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It sorta strikes me like an animal caught in a trap, gnawing its own leg off to get out.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just kind of highlights the hypocrisy, doesn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.</p>
<p>These people will attack anything that refutes their prejudices, but this goes farther than I thought possible.</p>
<p>It sorta strikes me like an animal caught in a trap, gnawing its own leg off to get out.</p>
<p>Just kind of highlights the hypocrisy, doesn&#39;t it?</p>
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