Wandering Children

This is a topic that interests me quite a bit and something I strive to be aware of on multiple levels. Born out of my home school post, I decided to make inquiries in my Twitter stream and asked three questions.

For non-religious: If you had a 8-10 yo child and they expressed an interest in religion would you encourage or discourage it? (Or neither?)

For religious: If you had a 8-10 yo child and they expressed an interest in a different religion would you en/discourage it? (Or neither?)

Follow up question if they began practicing this (non)religious belief into the teen years how would you treat it?

I felt pretty sure about the sorts of answers I would get from my religious friends. I was more interested in the sorts of answers I would get from my non-religious ones. Needless to say (and yet here he is, saying it anyway) the answers were interesting, diverse, and surprising in a few cases.

Most folks said they would encourage exploration and respect their children’s seeking even if it disagreed with their own beliefs. Since I don’t know the precise religious beliefs of everyone who follows me I can’t say with absolute certainty if there’s a clear dividing line between the two groups (really a spectrum of beliefs). Though I can say that there were Christians as well as non-Christians in the respect/trust group. There were certainly exceptions though.

salguod_net said “We’d research the other religion together and talk about the diff btw it and ours, & I’d point out why ours is sup. Teen: I think I’d put my foot down. My hse, my God. She’s gone, nothing I cn do, but I won’t have other God wor in my home.”

This is a view shared by my wife and a number of other Christians I’m sure. She and I talked about this and while she would not go so far as to kick the child out, there would be no overt worship involving a non-Christian religion tolerated. Personally, while I see where she is coming from, I disagree. If the child is mature enough to have found their own path, even if it’s one I disagree with and ultimately would lead to spiritual destruction, I don’t think anything would be served by cutting them off. The only end I could see coming from this approach is a door that is not only closed but nailed shut. Neither the relationship nor the parental religion would likely survive the encounter in the mind or life of the child.

Sidfaiwu had this to say. “RE earlier question: Both – I would educate about the religion and all the others…Combined with the critical thinking skills I hope I’ve instilled by then, the problem should work itself out.

I asked him if the education would be slanted in any way and he replied:

Yes it would – slanted towards doubt. Teaching doubt is part of critical thinking.

I didn’t get a real clear answer from him on what he would do if the “problem” (religion) wasn’t “taken care of” (rejected). I’m sure he’ll let us know in the comments. It does seem though at least on the surface that religion would be at the very least discouraged by Sid. It’s clear from what I know of him that he believes just as strongly as I do that there is a right and a wrong here, when it comes to the religious question. I am curious to know if he views this slanted education as being in the same vein as the indoctrination children in religious families go through. If so or even if not is one positive and one negative?

I suspect that the answer coming from any skeptic will involve the notion that as skeptics they would encourage their children to be skeptical even of skepticism. That is if that doesn’t cause some sort of weird infinite feedback loop. Teaching skepticism, the skeptic would likely argue, can’t be indoctrination by its very nature, can it? Or can’t it?

For me what it gets down to when it come to my kids and my religious beliefs is this. I teach them what I believe and that what I believe is the truth as far as I am capable of understanding it. As children their inclination is to do what we do. So, for now at least, they want to be Christians. They want to go to Sunday School and take communion and pray and read the Bible. I would be fooling myself if I though there was no chance for at least one of them to “go astray”. That sort of thing is a natural part of growing up, or at least it should be. One eventually comes to question many things they took for granted in the maturation process.

When that day comes, much like Doug I will share with them why I believe the way they’re going is bad. If they persist then they are certainly welcome to believe as they wish. I will love them no less. There would be fervent prayer and the hope that they would return to the faith of their father and mother. I wouldn’t deny them their right to worship (or not worship) however they chose. I wouldn’t make them come to church with me if they had no desire to. Eventually you have to go because you want to, not because I want you to.

I would strive though, as I do here, to keep the lines of communication open. I would try to be like the father of the prodigal son, on the look out for their return, preparing for that day.

  • http://decipheryourself.com/blog Dave

    I'm a firm believer (har har) that until one questions and actively tests his own faith that it is simply not real. That doesn't mean jump off a skyscraper and ask your deity to save you… alhough that would be a pretty good test of your dedication…

    Untested faith is empty and pretend. I tested my faith and realized that it was indeed a hand-me-down set of beliefs. I wanted it and sought it as genuinely as I could, because I thought it was what was right. As time passed, it became more about keeping up with traditions, keeping family happy, etc.

    I wasn't just bored in church, I was acting… pretending. And I gradually got off the fence.

    I respect someone who has kicked the tires of their faith and come through with it intact. The same thing goes for those who find faith as an adult (much like you have done, Scott). I don't agree that it's real, and can't fathom returning to something like that any more than I could return to a belief in any other mythical thing.

    I would no doubt be quite a different person if it weren't for my upbringing in church. I appreciate some of it, while I would gladly trade in the rest. It's as though I had a lot of catching up to do, in a sense. Life outside of church is as has been as revivifying for me as finding it is for others.

    I think you and I probably hold out the same hope for each other–that one finds what the other has tested and found to be real.

    I applaud you for not assuming lifelong control/manipulation plans for your children, but instead living the example you want them to see in you for the moment.

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  • sidfaiwu

    Hello Scott,

    “I didn’t get a real clear answer from him on what he would do if the “problem” (religion) wasn’t “taken care of” (rejected). I’m sure he’ll let us know in the comments.”

    It'll be my pleasure. What if I have a child who chooses to be religious? Not much different than I would otherwise, really. It wouldn't change our relationship from my point of view.

    “It does seem though at least on the surface that religion would be at the very least discouraged by Sid.”

    Religious belief would likely be discouraged by me, but religious knowledge would be encouraged. That is why I answered with “both” initially.

    “I am curious to know if he views this slanted education as being in the same vein as the indoctrination children in religious families go through.”

    It probably won't surprise you to learn that I don't consider being taught skepticism is the same as indoctrination. It is possible to indoctrinate a child into atheism (which I definitely don't want to do), but that is not the same as teaching skepticism. While it's true that most skeptics do not believe in any gods, it's not a universal conclusion.

    As you go on to surmise in your post, I don't believe it's possible to indoctrinate a child into skepticism. A part of skepticism is critical thinking which is the opposite of indoctrination. Critical thinking is the ability to analyze beliefs on one's own and come to one's own conclusions. Being indoctrinated is being handed down someone else's beliefs being expected to accept them without critical evaluation.

    “…there would be no overt worship involving a non-Christian religion tolerated.”

    Is enforcement of that even possible? Isn't that the equivalent of punishing your child for thought-crime? As I understand it, a significant portion of worship is a private, mental activity. Sure, sometimes that involves ceremony, but that is only one aspect of worship.

  • http://thesnurp.blogspot.com/ Snurp

    “It is possible to indoctrinate a child into atheism (which I definitely don't want to do), but that is not the same as teaching skepticism. While it's true that most skeptics do not believe in any gods, it's not a universal conclusion.”

    To add to what sid is saying, I would say that skepticism in the sense he's thinking (I think) of is more of a method for dealing with beliefs than a set of beliefs itself. I (and I think sid) wouldn't be interested in teaching a set of doctrines about religions in this case so much as teaching a critical method with which to analyze doctrines. So, for example, if I had a young child that came home talking about a Christian, Muslim, or what have you friend, I would ask my child what he or she thought about what that friend said, and whether it seems to “be nice” and “make sense” in the general terms (“What does your friend say about God? What do you think about that? Do you think there might be other ideas about that too?”)

    Of course, given sid's and my own leanings, there would be a slant towards the this-worldly, more verifiable side of things. Partly that plays into the skeptical method, insofar as you want some way of judging doctrines. But, again, that's more about method than belief. The beliefs that sid or myself would try to pass on to our children would be, ideally, the beliefs that pass that verification test, broadly defined.

    Also, to answer the second question: I would be okay with my child becoming religious. However, I would always be asking questions about it, to make sure that my kid isn't walking into anything without paying close attention (I don't mean interrogating; I mean making sure that my kid is always thinking about these questions in different situations, and so is always looking with a critical eye).

  • http://twitter.com/spiritualtramp Scott Roche

    You've made the argument before that faith untested and untried is empty and pretend. I disagree, but I will say that it is immature.

  • http://twitter.com/spiritualtramp Scott Roche

    That's why I used the word overt.

  • http://twitter.com/spiritualtramp Scott Roche

    Teaching that sort of skepticism I can get behind. I don't won't my children to walk into anything blind. Not even Christianity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Walker/726086078 Christopher Walker

    Hope this isn't too late. In high school, Sean McDowell went up to his father Josh (Yes, that Josh) one day and said he wasn't sure he believed in the Bible. Josh didn't blink, said confidently that he was sure that his son would figure things out and encouraged him to question his faith. Today Sean is a well-known speaker to teenagers on the Christian faith, and he credits the questioning process he went through with solidifying and personalizing his faith.

    I'm sure there is a fear in Christian parents that their children won't follow after them. In the end, it's all up to God.

  • http://criticalpressmedia.com/ Winston Crutchfield

    As a Christian parent, however much I may be tempted to explore my own feelings on the matter, I benefit from a more concrete foundation in the written word of God. This means that I don't have to ask myself what to do if my child strays from my faith, but rather that I already have a written set of instructions to follow when my children begin to question the validity of their religious instruction.

    In his epistles, Paul is in the habit of referring to members of the church as children, an expression of his nominal position as their spiritual father. As such, he has been responsible for raising them in the knowledge of the faith, but not for ensuring their experiential continuance therein. Paul certainly desires that none pursue other doctrines, but carefully refrains from direct criticism.

    Paul's example and instruction takes the following form: prayer for those who are testing their faith; reminder to the church of the historical foundation of their faith; reminder to the church of the purpose of their faith; a reminder to the church of the effect of their faith; and an assurance to the church of the source of their faith.

    As to my house. I see no reason to allow harmful spiritual practices under my roof, in the same way that I see no reason to allow harmful physical practices under my roof. We eat healthy. We wash our hands. We don't smoke. We don't worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I expect guests as well as my family to abide by these rules, regardless of their personal conviction. As long as I am legally and spiritually responsible for my children, I expect compliance accompanied by understanding of purpose.

    Can we reduce this discussion to an illustrative point? I eat my vegetables every day. I serve the same vegetables I eat to my children. I expect them to eat these vegetables, regardless of their own desire to do otherwise. As they are capable of understanding, I explain the purpose for eating vegetables. (Do not make the mistake of telling your son that green beans “put hair on his chest” while your daughter is listening.) At some point, my children are going to want to eat different foods that may or may not be as healthy as vegetables. Do I let them? Should I even try to stop them? I already know that vegetables are healthy. I know that some foods are not healthy, and that some things that present themselves as food are actually deadly. (Any one have a peanut or milk allergy?)

    As a dedicated fantasy and kung-fu-flick fan, I'm going to have to confront these issues eventually. Dogmatic rejection of opposing viewpoints is limited in effectiveness. ('Cause I said so, now get in the car!) Christianity is unique among religions in that it invites examination, secure in the belief that examination results in either conversion or informed rejection. While rote memorization of scripture has its place, at some point or other, I'm going to have to demonstrate to my children or someone else that my faith is historically, experientially, and consistently effective, in the same way that gravity *always* goes down.

  • http://twitter.com/spiritualtramp Scott Roche

    True enough and that is encouraging.

  • http://twitter.com/spiritualtramp Scott Roche

    Eventually though they have to either eat or not eat their veggies on their own. That point should come long before they leave your house. What would you consider worship that you wouldn't want in your house? I mean as Shawn pointed out we can't very well stop internalized worship.

    I'm not so sure I'd agree with you in regards to Christianity's uniqueness re: self-reflection/examination.

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