Was Christ “Of” Yahweh?

Part four on Dan’s list is about Jesus being sent by and/or being part of Yahweh.

4) Jesus must have been sent by, or been part of, Yahweh (i.e. I don’t think the Trinity is strictly necessary for Christianity to be true, but Yahweh’s involvement is).

His problem is as follows:

Link 4 in the chain is whether or not Jesus was from Yahweh.  If the gospels are to be believed on the details of Jesus’ life and teachings, it’s quite obvious that he wasn’t.  Or, at least, if you believe that Yahweh is the God who gave the law of Moses.  You see, Deuteronomy 13:5 and 18:22 lay out the test for a false prophet — a test which Jesus fails in a number of minor ways, and then majorly in the Olivet Discourse.  Jesus, being a false prophet (by encouraging others to break the law of Moses and by predicting events that did not happen).  Even C.S. Lewis admitted that Jesus prophesied falsely in his book “The World’s Last Night” on page 97-100 of the 1988 version (which is the one I have here).  This theological link is irreparably shattered, unless one throws out the gospels as reliable — but of course, if one does that, one must then throw out the resurrection, since the gospels are the only source of the resurrection story.

I’m interested in knowing where he encouraged rebellion against God.  That first Dt. passage talks about those who would encourage you to serve other gods.  I know there are instances where he was accused of encouraging others to break the law of Moses.  I’m not certain that that is the same thing.  He never said that anyone should turn away from God.

As far as the Olivet Discourse is concerned.  He predicted things that have not happened yet.  That’s not the same as predicting something that did not happen period.  Verse 34 does say “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”, but then he goes on to say “of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone”.  How does one reconcile the two?

Does “this generation” refer to the people living at the time?  Not necessarily.  It is possible that the word generation could be referring to Christ’s spiritual offspring or the Jews or both.  That would reconcile your difficulties and would make the two verses compatible.

As far as Lewis “admitting to” Jesus’ failing as a prophet, doesn’t he begin that essay by saying “I have no claim to speak as an expert in any of the studies involved, and merely put forward the reflections which have arisen in my own mind and have seemed to me (perhaps wrongly) to be helpful. They are all submitted to the correction of wiser heads.”  So what he says is not the Gospel.

In any event, none of this means he’s not “from Yahweh” or not sent by Yahweh.  He was a man and limited, as he said in vs. 36.  He was perfect only in the sense that he was free from sin.  Assuming he prophesied incorrectly it only means he was incorrect.  Something even he admitted was likely to be the case.

  • http://kansasbob.com Kansas Bob

    Some interesting thoughts here for sure Scott. This is a different thought:

    ” If the gospels are to be believed on the details of Jesus’ life and teachings, it’s quite obvious that he wasn’t.”

    I would agree if he is referencing the national religion and Yahweh of Israel.. but not if he is speaking of the faith and Yahweh of Abraham. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and the prophets but was cewrtainly not bound by the legalism of the religious establishment. His message was one aimed at the heart and not the heady legalism of the religious leaders.

  • http://www.biblearchive.com Rey

    I don’t even know why one would grant that Jesus was wrong about prophecies. I mean, on what ground is the questioner deciding the veracity of the prophecy? The Disciples took the prophecy to David of the Messiah not suffering corruption based on Jesus resurrecting, not on being in the tomb and checking the biological processes to see if Messiah suffered any corruption.

    In other words, there’s a heavy presupposition at work that the questioner thinks he understands the Olivet discourse when the Disciples themselves seemed to be confused by it–and the Gospel accounts was written after certain things wound up happening.