“Well let’s start here: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion. That’s what Webster says and that’s about what I envision.”
With this definition, we’d have to decide what constitutes ‘extravagant’. Certainly we all respect, honor, and/or show devotion to all sorts of things, family, friends, lovers, great artwork, extraordinary achievements, gods etc. But when does such attention become extravagant?
Sticking with Webster, the definition of ‘extravagant’ is “exceeding the limits of reason or necessity”. I think most of us have had the experience of being devoted etc. to someone despite the fact that they treated us badly (think being blinded by love). That certainly exceeds the limits of reason and necessity. Thankfully, that is usually fleeting.
So under Webster’s definitions, I do not currently worship anything, since (as far as I know) all my respect, honor, and devotion is constrained by reason.

Sounds like you might worship “reason” Sid.

Sounds like you might worship “reason” Sid.

Hello Leigh,
I certainly respect reason and honor those who use and value it. I guess I could say that I’m devoted to it as it is the human attribute I am most fond of. But I wouldn’t say that I do any of those things extravagantly. An example of a people that honor, respect, and are devoted to reason to extravagance would be the fictional race from Star Trek called Vulcans. They definitely worshiped (using Webster’s definition) reason. Unlike them I recognize the limitations of reason and value other traits, such as emotion and intuition.
I’m quite interested to hear your take on what ‘worship’ means.

“We put a lot of emphasis on things that are physically verifiable and rationality, perhaps too much, perhaps not. For me personally there are things that need to be verifiable and things that don’t.”
–Placing full trust in things that are verifiable would pretty much invalidate relgious belief. Is there room ro degrees? Outisde of religious belief, Christians expect everything else to be verifiable like the rest of us. Removed from the Christian persepctive for a moment, can you see how odd this one exception stands out?
Holding the sun and stars accountable for the happeninings in one’s life sure seems silly, huh!
“My thought would be that God has a plan for those people and that’s good enough for me.”
–But Christians are called to evangelize, to take water to the desert… what if a man is “lost” due to a Christian failing to follow his duty?
“…it lays the groundwork for what it means to be a Christian if that’s what you meant. So I suppose without the Bible we wouldn’t be Christians”
–Exactly. The Bible is the basis. The foundation of the building, but not necessarily the walls and windows. If it is anything less than infallible, however, that indicates something isn’t being transmitted properly. Could a key instruction to beleivers be lost because of human error passing it down?
“Maybe a child is more impressionable and maybe they aren’t.”
–No, there’s no room for debate here. Even strong-willed children are easily molded when compared to their adult self.
“[Regarding your adult conversion vs lifelong programming] Does that make my faith more “real”?”
–No. More relatable, understandable and respectable? I think so. What film/book storylines are most moving? A story of an always-pious monk, or a man who is redeemed after betraying the good guys all along?
“We’re just telling them the consequences of that path.”
–It’s more of a well-documented, communal opinion, isn’t it? “Our book says your lifestyle or behavior is at its core, a blight to God”? Imagine being pulled aside by someone who, with genuine concern, warns you not to take another bite of your steak (or to wear a certain color, or for your wife to wear makeup and not a veil), because it’s an affront to god. It is offputting or laughable to you, isn’t it? Because you know their god doesn’t exist, and Christian God doesn’t care if you do it, right? You don’t take them seriously, even if you allow them their beliefs and their own opinion. Why point out consequences to a non-believer? It’s like threatening a human with kyrptonite. Or is that the approach to evangelizing them? Wouldn’t that opener scare them away?
(Sorry, I’ve been a bit rushed in this reply, time is short this afternoon.)

Thanks Sid.
I debate frequently with Scott but rarely with strangers. Mostly, because I can be a bit argumentative, haughty, and rude (Aspects of myself which I really dislike). So I apologize in advance for times when I cross the line.
This is the definition that most fits what I believe about worship. Today’s idol worshipers probably don’t really view their idols as gods – but I think when you get down to it, if someone is not worshiping God as defined below, then they are really worshiping themselves as their own god setting up their own rules about what is worthy of reverence or respect or pursuit.
Definition: Worship is the humble response of regenerate men to the self-disclosure of the Most High God. It is based upon the work of God. It is achieved through the activity of God. It is directed to God. It is expressed by the lips in praise and by the life in service. (See http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=438)

Try this http://www.bible.org
Thanks Sid!
I was talking with Scott about the whole spiritual aspect of worship that seems to preclude “secular worship”. I have certain assumptions that guide my thinking. 1)God created people in His image (no – we don’t look like God. He is spirit – but we have a spiritual component) 2)God made us to worship Him (due to Adam’s fall and the introduction of sin we now still seek to worship – we just worship ourselves. We worship ourselves by fulfilling the desires of our sinful nature (i.e whatever makes us “happy” and brings us satisfaction – money, food, sex, sports, entertainment, pride in education, family, religiosity, and on and on.) Sometimes to fulfill our need to worship we raise these things to the status of idols when we put an unhealthy focus on them and “regard them with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion” or use them as the lens by which we view all else, make every decision based on that thing.
I’m sure this still doesn’t really answer your question. I can’t separate the spiritual and the secular because when it comes to people and the way we “work” I can’t take our spiritual side out of it.