Comments on: Reputation Among Outsiders

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 04:05:47 +0000

Thanks Jeff! I shall definitely give that a listen. Your words are well written. Many of us worry too much about what our brethren will think and not about what Christ did.

By: seo-Auckland

seo-Auckland — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:56:13 +0000

Interesting article. I need to read it again in order to digest all the information correctly!

By: seo-Auckland

seo-Auckland — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:55:09 +0000

Interesting article. I need to read it again in order to digest all the information correctly!

By: Jack Flakk

Jack Flakk — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:21:08 +0000

Of course. Those things that are not provable are the things that Christians conveniently take on faith. But when a Christian takes an absolute truth on faith (unsaved all end in hell), as opposed to a principle (people should put others first)… that doesn’t makes sense to the rest of us.
Interestingly enough, Christians do go looking for “proof” at some point… the remains of Noah’s ark, the location of Eden, the Holy Grail. Matter-of-factly too. Amazing!
I know you personally aren’t judging anyone. But by claiming Christian beliefs, you are stating to anyone that’s listening that you are a part of that group that believes they are naturally corrupt and guilty of continually sinning. By association, you are judging them.
If you believe in god, it does not mean you are a wholly irrational person. It does imply that you are susceptible to improvable suggestion in at least one instance. You are a rational person with some irrational beliefs.
Side question: How would you feel your life would be different if you were born and raised in another part of the world where another religion was presented to you in place of Christianity?
I’m not calling religious folk insane. The illustration of the alien-crazed man was to (perhaps poorly) illustrate how someone with a Christian-esque certainty about his own profound beliefs might appear. Replacing Christ and damnation with aliens and viruses to make a point about how absurd it is to someone outside.
Again, all this happens because of affiliation with Christianity. The on-the-record accounts of what Christians believe can make them strange, confusing and scary to regular folk.
I was amazed as a child that (protestant) Christians can be so accepting and assured of their own trust-based faith, but could so easily deny and classify away “cults” such as Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc.
Your belief that non-Christians will go to hell doesn’t make you crazy. But you don’t have a way to prove it either, so it is at best a firmly held opinion. An it’s an opinion that the vast majority of the educated public is aware of as soon as they see the “fish” on your trunk.

By: Scott

Scott — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:00:36 +0000

Thought you might appreciate it Sid and glad you feel welcome!

By: Scott

Scott — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:52:56 +0000

Hey Lorna, where’s the fine line?

By: Scott

Scott — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:46:22 +0000

I’ve been thinking more and more about this in recent weeks. I believe the negative reputation Christianity recieves stems from the fact that it is a group claiming absolute, yet highly unproveable truths.
I don’t know that I can agree with that. Most folks except the most hard core agnostic (can you be a hard core agnostic?) believe something essentially unprovable when it come to truth.
The real world is as “gray” as it gets. People’s experiences in this world validate that. So if a man claims to be a part of a black and white world, with a decoder ring through which he filters all events… it comes across as suspect or laughable. Things quickly move into the realm of anger, when a stranger begins condemning your lifestyle or personal decisions that are not in line.
Most people’s perception of the real world is gray. Except for the most extreme views on both sides of the theistic issue, I think most people would agree. The stranger condemning your lifestyle is exactly what I was talking about not doing. As a Christian it isn’t my job to really “judge” your lifestyle. Whether you are a Christ follower or not your lifestyle is corrupt and your personal decisions marred. So it comes back to how we treat one another.
It’s the wholehearted commitment to something so black and white, so wildly unproveable that it steals what might have been an otherwise rational man’s credibility.
Again we’re talking about extremists here. When you are talking about a commitment to black and white, what are you talking about? If I believe in an unproveable God does that make me irrational?
Imagine if someone claimed that we have all been injected with alien DNA, and that in order to survive a coming alien apocalypse, we had to take his miracle injection or suffer a needless and agonizing death.
That man may be dedicated and have concern for all mankind in his own head… but he’s not worth listening to. He’s f-ing insane!
So are religious people insane? Do you perceive them that way? Is that better/worse/equal to me saying that if you aren’t a Christ follower that you’ll go to Hell?

By: sidfaiwu

sidfaiwu — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:22:15 +0000

Hey Scott,
Thanks for linking that post. I read it and some of its daughter links. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy. It’s really good for me to have exposure to these ‘good freaks’, as gasmonso may once have put it .

This is what I strive to do here. Whether you are an atheist, and agnostic, a pagan, or a religious person of any stripe I hope that you feel welcome here and that you won’t be preached at/looked down on.

I think you do a great job. As a deist-agnostic (or my latest attempt at a brief description of my theological thoughts, a ‘functional atheist’), I can’t remember ever feeling anything but welcome here.

I think that the “devil’s trap” is probably pride/arrogance and there’s no short supply of that among my brethren. What say you guys?

The worst of all sins according to C.S. Lewis and Lucifer’s original sin according to Christian mythology. We are all guilty of it. Here’s Lewis’ method for recognizing one’s level of pride:

…if you want to find out how proud you are the easiest way is to ask yourself, “How much do I dislike it when other people snub me, or refuse to take any notice of me, or shove their oar in, or patronize me, or show off?”

By: Jack Flakk

Jack Flakk — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:44:03 +0000

I’ve been thinking more and more about this in recent weeks. I believe the negative reputation Christianity recieves stems from the fact that it is a group claiming absolute, yet highly unproveable truths.
It is this percevied hypocrisy, coupled with the self-righteous actions of Christians’ judegmentalism (even if only by association) that has ruined their reputation with the “outsdie world”.
The real world is as “gray” as it gets. People’s experiences in this world validate that. So if a man claims to be a part of a black and white world, with a decoder ring through which he filters all events… it comes across as suspect or laughable. Things quickly move into the realm of anger, when a stranger begins condemning your lifestyle or personal decisions that are not in line.
Then the worst happens. A hypocritical Christian “falls” in the public limelight. The sullies what’s left of Christianity’s reputation. It’s not the failing that is the issue. Or the “we’re all imperfect beings just trying to be Christlike” that undoes things.
It’s the wholehearted commitment to something so black and white, so wildly unproveable that it steals what might have been an otherwise rational man’s credibility.
Imagine if someone claimed that we have all been injected with alien DNA, and that in order to survive a coming alien apocalypse, we had to take his miracle injection or suffer a needless and agonizing death.
That man may be dedicated and have concern for all mankind in his own head… but he’s not worth listening to. He’s f-ing insane!