<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Retreat to Black Mountain</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2008/04/retreat-to-black-mountain/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2008/04/retreat-to-black-mountain/</link>
	<description>Musings on Christianity</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 09:00:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: sidfaiwu</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2008/04/retreat-to-black-mountain/comment-page-1/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>sidfaiwu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=37#comment-66</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I didn&#039;t mean to imply that you, personally, consider humans as utterly depraved.  I was just saying that attributing all good actions to a non-human (God) and all bad actions to human actions (sin) &lt;em&gt;creates&lt;/em&gt; that attitude.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Believing that one is actually doing the will of God and actually doing the will of God aren&#039;t one and the same.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I couldn&#039;t agree more.  But all that is required is that additional false belief that one is doing the work of God.  Since acts of God are synonymous with &#039;good&#039; in a believer&#039;s mind, they would feel no responsibility to any human condemnation of their acts.  This is not to imply that believing that one is doing the will of God is the &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; way one can become dangerously self-righteous.  Any dogma can do that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;I do give God the ultimate credit for good things that happen&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I can understand that point of view.  After all, nothing could be done if God had not created everything in the first place.  But why not also give God ultimate &lt;em&gt;blame&lt;/em&gt; for bad things?  Is not the reasoning behind giving Him ultimate credit the same as giving Him ultimate blame?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to imply that you, personally, consider humans as utterly depraved.  I was just saying that attributing all good actions to a non-human (God) and all bad actions to human actions (sin) <em>creates</em> that attitude.</p>
<blockquote><p>Believing that one is actually doing the will of God and actually doing the will of God aren&#8217;t one and the same.</p></blockquote>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more.  But all that is required is that additional false belief that one is doing the work of God.  Since acts of God are synonymous with &#8216;good&#8217; in a believer&#8217;s mind, they would feel no responsibility to any human condemnation of their acts.  This is not to imply that believing that one is doing the will of God is the <em>only</em> way one can become dangerously self-righteous.  Any dogma can do that.</p>
<blockquote><p>I do give God the ultimate credit for good things that happen</p></blockquote>
<p>I can understand that point of view.  After all, nothing could be done if God had not created everything in the first place.  But why not also give God ultimate <em>blame</em> for bad things?  Is not the reasoning behind giving Him ultimate credit the same as giving Him ultimate blame?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2008/04/retreat-to-black-mountain/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=37#comment-65</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think humans are utterly depraved.  Everything we do is tainted, but not completely corrupt.  While I do give God the ultimate credit for good things that happen (especially things that I believe are ultimately out of our control) I know that I&#039;m capable of doing things that other folks percieve as good. So are you.  I&#039;m just giving credit where credit is due.  God used the things we did for our ultimate benefit.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&quot;Worse yet, the most likely to do the mistreating are the ones who believe that they are doing the will of God (thus &#039;good&#039;, by definition).&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Believing that one is actually doing the will of God and actually doing the will of God aren&#039;t one and the same.  I suppose there you&#039;d have to get back to the fruits of their behavior.  If I believe that people are corrupt in some fashion then that should drive me personally to love them more and be understanding when they fail to meet my expectations.  It often does and when it doesn&#039;t that&#039;s my problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think humans are utterly depraved.  Everything we do is tainted, but not completely corrupt.  While I do give God the ultimate credit for good things that happen (especially things that I believe are ultimately out of our control) I know that I&#8217;m capable of doing things that other folks percieve as good. So are you.  I&#8217;m just giving credit where credit is due.  God used the things we did for our ultimate benefit.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Worse yet, the most likely to do the mistreating are the ones who believe that they are doing the will of God (thus &#8216;good&#8217;, by definition).&#8221;</p>
<p>Believing that one is actually doing the will of God and actually doing the will of God aren&#8217;t one and the same.  I suppose there you&#8217;d have to get back to the fruits of their behavior.  If I believe that people are corrupt in some fashion then that should drive me personally to love them more and be understanding when they fail to meet my expectations.  It often does and when it doesn&#8217;t that&#8217;s my problem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sidfaiwu</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2008/04/retreat-to-black-mountain/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>sidfaiwu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=37#comment-64</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sure thing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You mention a lot of positive, personal developments in your post, especially with regards to open and honest interactions with fellow humans.  You then credit God for this progress, &quot;God unlocked some doors and flung others wide open.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As a deist, I believe in a non-interventionist God.  Thus God did nothing for you on your trip - you did, with help from friends.  Give yourself some credit.  You are capable of making changes for the better.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is part of a larger habit of Christians that bugs me.  When good things happen, God gets the credit.  When bad things happen, its often because of human sin.  It&#039;s a tautology that paints humans as utterly depraved beings incapable of doing any good.  Such a view opens the door to &lt;em&gt;treating&lt;/em&gt; people as such.  Worse yet, the most likely to do the mistreating are the ones who believe that they are doing the will of God (thus &#039;good&#039;, by definition).&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure thing.</p>
<p>You mention a lot of positive, personal developments in your post, especially with regards to open and honest interactions with fellow humans.  You then credit God for this progress, &#8220;God unlocked some doors and flung others wide open.&#8221;</p>
<p>As a deist, I believe in a non-interventionist God.  Thus God did nothing for you on your trip &#8211; you did, with help from friends.  Give yourself some credit.  You are capable of making changes for the better.</p>
<p>This is part of a larger habit of Christians that bugs me.  When good things happen, God gets the credit.  When bad things happen, its often because of human sin.  It&#8217;s a tautology that paints humans as utterly depraved beings incapable of doing any good.  Such a view opens the door to <em>treating</em> people as such.  Worse yet, the most likely to do the mistreating are the ones who believe that they are doing the will of God (thus &#8216;good&#8217;, by definition).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2008/04/retreat-to-black-mountain/comment-page-1/#comment-1775</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=37#comment-1775</guid>
		<description>&quot;Though my theology leads me to a different interpretation of your religious experience,&quot;
Gotta know what this means.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Though my theology leads me to a different interpretation of your religious experience,&#8221;<br />
Gotta know what this means.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sidfaiwu</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/2008/04/retreat-to-black-mountain/comment-page-1/#comment-1774</link>
		<dc:creator>sidfaiwu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritualtramp.com/blog/?p=37#comment-1774</guid>
		<description>Though my theology leads me to a different interpretation of your religious experience, I am sincerely glad you enjoyed your self on your trip in so many ways.
I&#039;ll blog about my trip when I get the pics up on my site.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though my theology leads me to a different interpretation of your religious experience, I am sincerely glad you enjoyed your self on your trip in so many ways.<br />
I&#8217;ll blog about my trip when I get the pics up on my site.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

