Comments on: Three Books

By: sidfaiwu

sidfaiwu — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:34:05 +0000

Hey Scott,
That is just the problem with miracles. I would love to see what you have to say about that word. It seems to mean everything from ‘an unexpected good thing that happened’ (“it’s a miracle that the check didn’t clear until after payday”) to ‘an event that contradicts how one currently understand the universe to normally operate’. Once we have a clear definition of the term, then we can discuss whether they have happened or can happen at all.

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:22:23 +0000

Well Sid you’re certainly right that it isn’t reasonable to say that Jesus will be returning some day. There’s nothing reasonable at all about the miraculous. One of these days I’ll write a nice little rant about that word (miraculous/miracle as well perhaps about the word gentleman). So you’re within rights certainly to reject it. Aren’t you glad to have my permission? Just remember that there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy.

By: sidfaiwu

sidfaiwu — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:02:06 +0000

“Sid, you claim to know that he isn’t coming back, something you can certainly believe, but cannot know for certain.”
Indeed, you are correct. Just I cannot know that gravity will still be an attractive force next week, or that a clear sky will be blue tomorrow, or that JFK won’t return to earth in the year 2107. Strictly speaking, no one can know any of these things for certain, yet we accept them without question. Why? We all have an intuitive belief in inductive reasoning; a belief that the future will behave like the past. No human from the past have returned to life after years of being dead. Inductively, no one will. Our real disagreement is over whether Jesus has only human or something more.
Your comment clarified your opinion very well, Kansas Bob. Thanks. You certainly didn’t offend me. I especially like your question, “I wonder what books people would include if the question was asked in the year 1007.. how helpful those books woud be today?” I would suggest that our collective knowledge has dramatically increased since 1007 while the scenario in The Time Machine has it that our collective knowledge will dramatically decrease by 3007. Thus a book from knowledge-poor 1007 is likely to be useless now, but certain books now would be quite useful in either 1007 or 3007.
Great question = interesting discussion.

By: Patrick

Patrick — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:23:30 +0000

Controlling and ruling society…hmm…yes, I believe that was where I was going with that one.
And I had the same reasoning as Scott on the Bible. I chose it, not because it is or isn’t God’s Word, but because even in a purely analogous sense, the stories, allegories and teachings are worthy of building a decent society on.
I chose The Prince so I could rule that society, and The Art of War so that I and my minions may strike down any thing or any one that stands in my way. The last two would be in my private library..in my fortress under the volcanic island.

By: Kansas Bob

Kansas Bob — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:58:44 +0000

Didn’t mean to offend.. just wanted to bring to light some of our pre-conceived ideas about the future. Many see the future of the earth as one where Jesus will come back and reign.. some don’t.. the picture painted in The Time Machine is one where Jesus didn’t come back and people no longer had a knowledge of God.
My point about the bible was to say that it is God’s book and He has the responsibility to preserve it in future generations.. which I believe He will.
I wonder what books people would include if the question was asked in the year 1007.. how helpful those books woud be today?
Cheers, Bob

By: Scott

Scott — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:19:21 +0000

Oh and regarding the time travel thing, the question could have just as easily been about traveling backwards… or sideways. It doesn’t matter. The crux of the question is which books should you bring and why would you. KB would evidently not bring a book. I think which books you choose or don’t choose says a greast deal.

By: Scott

Scott — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:15:46 +0000

Regarding Jesus and his coming back I’m guessing that you two gents (and let’s do remember to act like gentlemen) know something I don’t. Sid, you claim to know that he isn’t coming back, something you can certainly believe, but cannot know for certain. Bob, you’re claiming to know that he’s coming back within a certain time frame. Also not such rock steady ground.
Regarding my choice of the Bible, I would bring it because I believe it to be a book chock full of truths on how we should live and treat other people and also full of ways in which we should not. That alone could certainly make for a beneficial book. And maybe books could be, you know, useful? Granted my three certainly aren’t the most utilitarian choices one could make, but that’s rarely my motivation in anything.
(fixed an omission of two important letters and an apostrophe)

By: sidfaiwu

sidfaiwu — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:35:36 +0000

“So, I guess in this version of ultra-future events/history Jesus hasn’t come back yet?”
Nope, and he never will.
“Why would you want to bring the bible if it hadn’t survived the test of time?”
I was surprised at the choice of the Bible for the same reason and was thinking of asking a similar question. But Scott did mention that zero books survive, so I guess that no, the Bible does not survive the test of time in this scenario.
“Why do you think any book would be helpful?”
That’s an odd question. Have you never been helped by a book?

By: Kansas Bob

Kansas Bob — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:57:35 +0000

So, I guess in this version of ultra-future events/history Jesus hasn’t come back yet?
Why would you want to bring the bible if it hadn’t survived the test of time?
Why do you think any book would be helpful?

By: sidfaiwu

sidfaiwu — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:25:22 +0000

The three books that I destroyed in my rage at discovering to what civilization had come, of course
Patrick, your three are great choices for controlling and ruling society, not rebuilding it. It’s too bad you couldn’t squeeze in Hobbs’s Leviathan as well.
I’ll try to pick three off the top of my head.
1. Advanced Engineering Mathematics 8th. ed. I could write the pre-requisite math texts when I got there.
2. Grey’s Anatomy. It’s the only large medical book that I know of. If this were not hypothetical, I’d actually research a good comprehensive medical book.
3. This is a tough choice. Some large ‘how-to’ book like Scott suggested would be good as would a guide to agriculture. Again the right choice would take some research. But since I don’t know any off of the top of my head, I’ll have to pick something else. How about a copy of The United States Constitution.

By: Scott

Scott — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:36:27 +0000

Good choices guys. I almost went with Teh Prince and the medical manual is particularly good. I tried to think of one book that would give some sort of help with construction/simple machines, but nothing came.

By: Ben

Ben — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:07:19 +0000

The Complete Oxford English Dictionary
The Merck Manual of Medical Information
The Complete Illustrated Kama Sutra

By: Patrick

Patrick — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:55:47 +0000

The Bible
The Prince – Machiavelli
The Art of War – Sun Tzu