They seem to grasp the inclusiveness of Jesus' preaching that is lost on the more conservative elements of American Christianity. I mean it's basic logic:

1. God loves all people
2. Porn Stars are people
thus
3. God loves Porn Stars

Of course, basic logic is exactly what is missing from the Exclusion Christians.

You've heard these thoughts of mine before: Christianity would be better off if it returned to the social justice aspects of Jesus and away from the "thou shall not" preaching and policy-making.

I love the shirt too! This is right on..

They honestly love and care for these people.

..because love never fails.

I've never been one to claim he understands Christian bumpersticker style slogans, but I do get this one. Jesus loves everybody. But how far does it carry. Will we see a shirt one day that say - Jesus loves child murders. I'm not relating porn with murder but how far do even the most liberal of Christians believe JC's love goes. Is there a limit?

Hello Kevin Anderson,

From what I remember of Christian theology, God/Jesus/HG loves everyone, but hates everyone's sins. As Gandhi put it, "Hate the sin, love the sinner". After all, Jesus did die for all sins, according Christians.

I also recall that God hates all sins equally. Thus lust is as bad as murder from His point of view. Or, viewed conversely, murder is only as bad as lust. I'm not sure if most Christians agree with this or if it is just particular to Baptists and other denominations.

That's a great way to look at it - separating the sin from the sinner. Makes a lot of sense.

I wish I could do that, unfortunately, I'm a stone cold believer in "what we do is what we are. What we really are."

Welcome Kevin! Love your Pez story btw.

Okay so I'm glad to see that I've got a few voices that "get" this.

I will say that I agree with Kevin (in as far as I understand him). Jesus does love us in spite of our sins, but what we are (a sinner) often shines through making our need for grace that much more plain. One can seperate sin from sinner only in some ways. Ultimately only Jesus can remove/cover the stain of our sin.

Hey Sid! I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that not every Christain believes that God loves everyone equally. He loves his children. He loves his creation to an extent. So who are his children? Professing Christians brought in through "adoption". We are all his creation and as John 3:16 says God so loved his creation (the world) that whoever believes in his son will not perish, etc. So he gives us the option to be "in the family".

Kevin Anderson,

I agree. The difference between sin and sinner (or, to use less religiously-infused terms, the person and their immoral acts) are blurred at best. Indeed, my disbelief in freewill forces me to admit that the difference is only temporal. One's current immoral actions may not accurately reflect one's usual or life-time actions.

Scott,

Ah, I forgot that Presbyterians' predestination doctrine paints them into that distasteful theological corner.

By the way, when I brought it up under another post, you never mentioned what your/Presbyterians' stance is on the the Doctrine of Eternal Security. Do you have an opinion?

Which corner would that be?

Mine and the presbyterian's stance are close enough. Basically those whom God elects to salvation are always saved. Now the thing I have trouble with in that is the scriptures in Hebrews that seem to talk about losing your salvation. The typical answer to that seems a bit dodgy.

It's the same thing we've talked about before. It's the problem of suffering with respect to Hell. God predestined some for salvation and not others. Thus God knowingly created most souls to suffer eternal torment. Thus God loves those individual less than His chosen. I'd imagine that is the toughest part of predestination to justify.

If true, it means we are living in the cosmological equivalent of North Korea. God is reduced to Oppressive Dictator of Creation. This certainly doesn't inspire worship.

Wow. It looks like I'm a bit late in this conversation...

This is, in large part, what initially turned me off of Christianity. Even if I did accept that there was a god, I would have hard time picking Christianity.

According to the T-Shirt, God (and Jesus, in this case) loves all porn stars. OK. Fair enough. But then, Christians turn around and say that if you don't believe, you're going to hell. What I take away from that is this: it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you're going to heaven. But (and it's a big but) if you do good deeds your entire life, but you don't subscribe to this one form of religion, you're doomed for all eternity. Or, if you do nothing wrong your entire life, and you've happened to never hear of Jesus, you're going to hell...

Furthermore, if we are predestined to either heaven or hell, what is the point of praying for us? (I didn't feel demeaned when you offered your prayers and I do appreciate what that means when a Christian tells me that, even if I don't believe in it...)

No easy answers here. I struggle with the same questions you have Sid. All I've come up with so far are things that I believe to be true.

1) There is a God.
2) I am a sinner.
3) There is hope for me.
4) That hope is in Christ.

God has a plan. I'm not privy to all the details of that plan. I'm okay with that. He tells me to go tell people about Christ and for me to love those people and to love Him. I manage to do that most days. I figure Christ loves all porn stars and desires them to come to a knowledge of him. I love all porn stars regardless since I don't have a clue as to whether they will accept God or not. I love you and Toby for the same reason. I desperately want you both as brothers in Christ. We may never get there (and if I have to be the one to convince you then we most assuredly won't) and that thought makes me angry (at God not at you). That's okay too. God can handle my anger and my confusion.

Toby, what you say is true in part. The theory is that if you do come to a faith in Christ that that will bear good fruit. You will love people and reach out to them. In fact we're told that we'll know followers of Christ by their fruit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control). If you know someone who is a Christian and who isn't displaying these things you have my permission to refer them to me for correction.

Regarding the folks "do good deeds [their] entire life" well I suppose that depends on who the judge is or what the measuring stick is. The only one I know of who's done that is Christ. None of us get a pass. Can you tell me someone who has been perfectly good their entire life?

Regarding the folks who never hear the gospel, well Sid and I have talked about the theory of "General Revelation". That's the idea that you can know that there is a God by looking at creation. I think if someone believes that there is a God and never hears the Gospel, but serves the God as best they can then there's hope. That's my theory anyway.

And as far as predestination and prayer goes, God knows where and what he has called you to. I don't. For all I know He has predestined my prayer life as the secondary cause for your salvation.

Also Toby, better late than never!